Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/18/1994 08:15 AM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 446 - Environmental Conservation Agreements MEAD TREADWELL, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION (DEC), stated HB 446 which was presented by the governor relates to partnerships. He said DEC has over 500,000 people who live in the state who care for its environment. DEC has approximately 500 employees who cannot do the job unless it is done together with others in partnership. He said HB 446 strengthens the law to ensure it is clear that DEC has the authority to enter into partnerships with communities and other entities, to work on delegating state or federal programs where possible, to set up indicators to track progress on environmental concerns and set priorities on those concerns. MR. TREADWELL pointed out that most federal and state environmental laws might be decried as the stove pipe approach. There are air laws which do not take into account water problems; water laws which do not take into account hazardous waste problems. In trying to find compliance with the laws, there is a need to set priorities in a community because there may be a situation, for example, where people may be catching a disease from poor drinking water in a community, but an air requirement might require lots of money to be spent on monitoring the only power plant within a 3-4 mile radius. He stressed that DEC feels it is important to sit down with a community and know its environmental priorities through the partnership process. Number 402 MR. TREADWELL stated in regard to prioritization, there are 1500 contaminated sites around the state and what may be on a high action list for state action may not represent a community's priorities. This process of community agreements allows DEC to sit down with a city council, talk about those sites in their area, and encourage local action. He advised committee members that the last committee which heard HB 446 had all Do Pass recommendations. He stressed HB 446 strengthens and builds upon the partnerships DEC already has in existence. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked how the number of contaminated sites in Alaska compares with the state of Washington. MR. TREADWELL said he could not answer that question, but being discussed in regard to the indicators program is to be able to make those kinds of comparisons. He stated of the contaminated sites the state has, there are a number which are major threats to drinking water, but DEC is making a good effort. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said he was trying to get an idea on the relative value in terms of the threat the state has compared to other states, past stewardship, where the state is, and where it is going. He asked if this partnership process is like what the Department of Transportation does in the six year planning of their capital improvement program, they work through communities to develop priorities and as funding is available, the priorities are put into the Governor's capital budget. Number 456 MR. TREADWELL responded DEC has a similar process currently for capital appropriations and gave an example. He said solid waste is a major problem in Southeast Alaska and as federal regulations have increased, having this kind of agreement has enabled DEC to sit down in various areas of Southeast to try and prioritize regional landfills. He said the partnership agreement is basically a problem solving approach. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the community agreements are contractual agreements giving communities the authority to take legal action in the event of noncompliance. MR. TREADWELL responded that DEC has delegated some state programs to communities. Fairbanks and Anchorage do health inspections, for example. He said DEC would like to delegate more and added that under the law, DEC has certain oversight responsibilities when they do delegate. The community agreements do not give DEC additional power to delegate but makes it clear that it is the intent of the legislature to work toward the areas where delegation is applicable under other laws. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON clarified the community agreement is more of a policy statement. Number 495 MR. TREADWELL said that is correct. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON reiterated the agreement does not relieve DEC of any current responsibilities and does not eliminate DEC's authority to take legal action in the event of an illegal action. MR. TREADWELL replied that is correct and added the agreement also does not mandate that DEC pass certain things on to communities. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated the partnership agreement is more of an arms length policy mechanism. Number 530 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said unfunded mandates tend to come from the top down, federal to state, state to local community, and clarified that the community agreements do not evolve into an unfunded mandate, coming from the community up to the state. MR. TREADWELL stated legislators continually hear from municipalities about their needs to fulfill their responsibilities and the community agreements will not change that. He said the agreements allow DEC to sit down with a city council once a year and discuss present and future activities and priorities. For example, if a town plans to build a sewer facility, DEC should be aware of that. He gave other examples. He explained the agreements will not create entitlement for communities, but will allow DEC to be better educated about what the needs are. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER noted there is a zero fiscal note attached to HB 446 and felt that in five years, the cost could be substantial because the passage of HB 446 will give justification for the existence of another branch of DEC. MR. TREADWELL disagreed. He pointed out there is a regional organization currently in place and a community lead person within DEC has been identified to work with each community. He added that embedded in DEC's budget is a large amount for data acquisition and stated DEC is data rich and information poor. The community agreements will help DEC determine what information they have on a community by community basis. He felt the agreements will help DEC's work to be more effective and does not see HB 446 creating a new entitlement for DEC. He said on the indicators project, DEC has received federal funds to develop a set of indicators which are consistent with other states and has received a grant for comparative risk. Once that project is set up, DEC will be able to report the information collected to communities. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if anything is going to stop if HB 446 is not passed. MR. TREADWELL said no. He stated the commissioner and the Governor have asked for this legislation to have the legislature, as a policy body, reaffirm the program which is ongoing. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if the lead person mentioned earlier is funded out of general funds. MR. TREADWELL responded DEC has a regional administrator for each of the four regions of the state: Southeast, Southcentral, Northern and Pipeline Corridor. There are approximately 200 communities in the state. Through the community agreement program, DEC has told the mayor of a given community that this lead person should be involved on day to day issues. That lead person knows it is their responsibility to process permits, etc., but also to sit down once a year with the mayor and city council to develop an agreement so DEC and the community have common priorities. He explained the lead person is in reality many people making up the regional staff and they are funded through federal funds, general funds and response funds, but added that part of their job is touching base with each community. Number 671 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN expressed concern in regard to oil operations. He said there are local emergency planning committees (LEPCs), regional citizens' advisory councils (RCAC), etc., and they receive considerable contributions from a fund. He thought entering into an agreement with a community sounds like an advisory position and has more strength than indicated. He wondered with going to communities to discuss issues and the travel, time, etc., involved, why there is a zero fiscal note. He did not see how DEC can do more without costing more and asked about funding sources. MR. TREADWELL responded DEC has not funded, except for one time, any RCAC's. TAPE 94-35, SIDE B Number 000 MR. TREADWELL gave an example where the federal government writes rules which require communities to test their drinking water once a month for bacteriological things, twice a year for certain heavy minerals, once every three years for radiation, etc., which is a tremendous unfunded mandate upon each community. He said certain regions in the state have the lowest compliance rate in the country. DEC has gone as far as possible with direct command, control and enforcement to get the problems addressed. To go above and beyond that is to sit down with the mayor and city council and discuss why the requirements are important and what needs to be done. He stressed the community agreement program is not going to cost more money. MR. TREADWELL said for example, the person who runs the field office in Nome is responsible for 40 villages. When he goes to a village, he is there to visit the water system, check on contaminated sites, check on the school district, check the dump, etc., but in each of these cases, he is dealing with one city official and part of his job now is to spend time with the mayor and city council to address problems together. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN expressed confusion. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS stated a community agreement will get a community to focus on particular problems before they become serious problems. For example, in Ketchikan there is a problem with the waste water discharge in the borough which previously was unknown. Now the community is upset about what is happening in regard to regulations, etc. Had the community been prepared, it would have been able to plan for the problem. MR. TREADWELL said that is accurate. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if having a community agreement in that example would have precluded the situation. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS said a community agreement would have helped make the community and DEC work together to focus on the problem. MR. TREADWELL stressed the community agreement program is a voluntary program. He said DEC has had communities turn down the agreement offer while other communities have been grateful. DEC has had attorneys look at the agreements to ensure they do not create entitlement or advocate other laws. He said 90 percent of what DEC does is working with communities. Number 093 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated the agreement program is a formalized cooperative methodology of compliance with federal and state requirements. He asked on page 2, line 2 where it indicates through delegation or cooperative management, if that implies delegation of legal authority to the local level. MR. TREADWELL responded in the same way the federal government retains oversight on the state when programs are delegated to DEC, DEC retains oversight over municipal programs when they are delegated there and gave several examples where DEC hoped they could get delegation. He said DEC still writes the regulations, they still have to be consistent with state law, but DEC has gone as far as possible with delegation to make sure the decisions are made by communities. Number 145 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked who will be allowed to enter into the agreements. MR. TREADWELL responded it will be cities and boroughs. He said the broad definition of local governing body for an incorporated community can meet any of the Title 29 depredations. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN wondered if there will be a constitutional problem when an entity such as a Native regional corporation which represents a portion of people within an area and is a for-profit corporation, applies for permits. MR. TREADWELL said currently if a Native regional corporation owns both fuel tanks in 20 places along a river to support a fueling operation, DEC can enter into a compliance order by consent which says as well as paying a fine, getting a court order, etc., it is appropriate for DEC to sit down with the group ahead of time and say in order to avoid long-term compliance problems, let us deal with the problem comprehensively ahead of time. He gave an example. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON made a motion to MOVE HB 446 with a zero fiscal note out of committee, with INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections. Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED.
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